Is free energy possible?

Machines which can produce energy without fuel? From the quantum soup, black holes, magnetic fields...

Is free energy possible?

Postby forum_admin on Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:30 pm

'Free energy' is defined here as a method of accessing energy without a conventional source of power. So although wind and solar energy are 'free' they are excluded from this definition.

Is free energy possible? This is a debate that has raged on the fringes of science for a long time. One side states that we have a good understanding of physics and engineering, and producing energy from nowhere is categorically impossible. The other side points out that we don't understand that much, for example exactly how magnetic fields propagate, or how quantum particles appear out of nothing, and so there may be a breakthrough one day which allows is to build a machine to produce all the power we need.

The first group tend to be trained physicists or engineers, while those in the second group are more often self taught back room tinkerers. For this reason, communication between the two is often difficult - the social ineptness of the engineers rubs up against the technical ignorance of the tinkerers. There is perhaps another group - those more skilled in marketing who try and convince others to 'invest' in their company which has a (so far secret and not publicly demonstrated) design for a free energy machine.

So whoever you are, have your say here!
forum_admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:51 pm

Not free, rather, Easily Ammortizable

Postby cj6s on Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:13 pm

Even if that holy grail of physics, zero point energy exists, money will still be spent on the construction and maintenance of the device to harness and store it. ZP nrg is about as close to free as it gets and if it is ever found and harnessed the end user will still have to buy "the machine" and probably make monthly payments and possibly a little each year to maintain it and keep it working. I don't know advanced physics and what the generally accepted definition of the theory of ZP nrg is but using my layman's definition: Usable energy that seemingly comes from nowhere, I state here for the first time in writing that, not only in theory, but as seen demonstrated in everyday life--though unnoticed by the casual (non)observer--zero point energy of this definition exists. It has existed since matter as we know it existed--and, yes, it can be harnessed, easily.
The great thing about this energy is that it doesn't take a metaphysicist to build a contraption to harness it. I have been developing alternative energy for decades now (yes, on and off) and this has to be the simplest yet most magical form and I am disappointed with myself for not thinking of using it for mass power before a year or so ago. Now, not meaning to be selfish or a profiteer, I won't say how to come across this energy right yet. Yes, I do need to show that it is first, economically feasible and environmentally friendly if used not just by the universe but humans for nrg needs, and secondly, as a human myself, and from a poor family in a downward spiral country at that, I need to ensure the financial future of myself and my children before I release the "secret" freely over the internet. It will take about a hundred dollars to prove that this source can be tapped and cost less (in amortization terms) than the cheapest energy out there now. And if I can ever spare a hundred bucks, by Jove, I'll do it. In fact I can't wait! Basically, what I'm saying is that hope is on the horizon, one that is just centimeters out of my reach. Easily Amortizable Energy (EAE) is here, and I promise you, as soon as I have that Franklin and am pretty sure either of my kids won't need any expensive medicine in the immediate future or anything that might making saving that $100 a wise decision, well, I'll use it to build the damn thing. And, I assure all you people who are genuinely concerned about our home, as soon as I'm financially secure and can afford another contact lens for my other eye I'll post it on the Net--maybe here.
Anyhow, cheer up and pop open a beer EAE is nearly here (save the champagne for when it's actually powering my apartment). And save the tequila for when I make it free to the world!!! (without the hidden agenda that DOS had for future mega profits) Gotta get back to work now. My next post will be about my current nrg project, a short-term and temporary nrg solution. This I will freely discuss and even ask for help concerning some readings I get. 'Til then, keep thinking of your own solutions to big oil. You got some time to try and best my idea...lol... :twisted:
ceej

Remember: Electricity to power vehicles still needs to come from somewhere...EV's are not the solution, alt nrg is.
cj6s
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:36 pm

Re: Is free energy possible?

Postby windgat on Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:16 pm

Hi cj. If there is an idea which takes $100 to demonstrate feasibility, then I will happily find the $100. I would be happy to sign any contract from you in which I build your design and spend the $100 cost myself in exchange for 1% of the profits which result. If that sounds reasonable, please forward me the contract and then the designs at your earliest convenience!
windgat
Founding member
 
Posts: 558
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:49 am
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

Re: Windgat's proposal

Postby cj6s on Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:31 pm

Windgat, that really is a tempting offer. It really CAN be proved for $100 worth of materials and I wish we could do it this way. I really don't know any other way to put this so I'll be brave and be straight forward with you. Just promise to read to the end and to consider my counter offer. I have made international contracts with people before--and every one was broken. The most I lost on any single one was $1000+, which is pretty big over here and I did recover financially but lost other things--still, this is a much more sensitive, not to mention much bigger project (in terms of intellectual property and future profit and what not). I just have never been able to prosecute anyone abroad to recover money and IP lost, etc. and seriously, this is my only "baby", I mean THE only idea I have that has a good potential of keeping me and my kids housed and fed. If we do it the way you suggested, I risk everything. I hope you understand. I would gladly give a percentage of ALL profit for anyone who supported me and my invention but it has to be on different terms. For example, if we were to construct the thing either here or there (or in a neutral country) and make a contract in that country and both be there until we had a patent at least pending, that would be fine with me. Personally I would like to do it in another country because of the corruption here (not to mention all the alternative energy inventors who have been killed here--or had their children...well...). You see, I really am in terrible shape financially. I do have a piece of titled land that is quite valuable but can't sell it (no buyers for ages...). And no bank, not even good friends will give me a loan on it for funding "experiments". I mean my own mother will not even listen to a proposal--anyhow--how about this: I find a way to get over there at my expense (but I will need a suitable proposal or invitation of sorts from you like a job offer or business partnership, even if fake, just to show the person I'm borrowing the air fare from.) Then, if you're ok with finding me a part time job (I used to teach SCUBA diving and can do all sorts of other things--and I don't mind dangerous jobs) so I don't starve while I'm there, we can build the thing with your $100 and if it works fine, take the next step and put up a business. Or I can put it up and you just collect our share of the profits if you'd rather continue with your wind nrg. (I want to end up in the wilds of western Canada and you prob want to stay in SA so, I mean, whatever...) But I'll state here that, as requested, you'll get AT LEAST 1% of all future profits for the life of the business. (And that's the reason I posted something as personal as this--so that it becomes like a public document. But I've also emailed you a copy.) And hell, I've always wanted to dive with the great whites over there anyway! Wear the chain mail suit and hand feed them and everything!
So, I await your reply. Suggestions are welcome and let's see where we go from here. Take care and thanks for the initial offer, Windgat.

Sincerely,

C.J.B. De Raedt
ceej

Remember: Electricity to power vehicles still needs to come from somewhere...EV's are not the solution, alt nrg is.
cj6s
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:36 pm

Re: Is free energy possible?

Postby Greystoke on Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:40 pm

Good Grief ! Image
Regards
Cor
Greystoke
Hyper active member
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:10 am
Location: Port Elizabeth, South Africa

Re: Is free energy possible?

Postby Greystoke on Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:24 pm

Look guys,
I do not at all subscribe to theories that are inconsistent with the physical rules established by such people as Newton and Einstein (just to name a few). Far too many experiments have proven them right.
To suggest that someone can say that:”I state here for the first time in writing that, not only in theory, but as seen demonstrated in everyday life--though unnoticed by the casual (non)observer--zero point energy of this definition exists. It has existed since matter as we know it existed--and, yes, it can be harnessed, easily.”, is to suggest that Newton and Einstein were wrong.
Well maybe they were, but I wouldn’t expect such a suggestion to come from someone who – by his own admission - has no education in physics.
Such suggestions are an insult to science.
Regards
Cor
Greystoke
Hyper active member
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:10 am
Location: Port Elizabeth, South Africa

Re: Is free energy possible?

Postby windgat on Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:24 am

Well now Greystoke... Einstein wasn't too educated himself, and what's more he turned out to be wrong too, as did Newton, depending how you view it. Lets keep a healthy skepticism, yes, but also, lets not close our minds to the possibility of someone somewhere making a breakthrough sometime in the future. And who knows what formally defined education level they will be at!
windgat
Founding member
 
Posts: 558
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:49 am
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

Re: Is free energy possible?

Postby Greystoke on Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:44 am

windgat wrote:// Lets keep a healthy skepticism, yes, but also, lets not close our minds to the possibility of someone somewhere making a breakthrough sometime in the future.
By all means !
People are entitled to think what they will. Some people still belief the world is flat, or that the world was created ±6000 years ago. Fine by me, but keep it to yourself, and DON'T expect me to take it serious. What cj6s is suggesting flies in the face of scientific evidence against it. If he wishes to gain scientific credibilty, he now needs to prove that the rules are wrong, or that the rules - in fact - allow the existence of his discovery.

I believe in the ways of science, and the accepted methods of research. Sure, some layman can make a discovery, as long as its not that the world is really flat, or . . . that the perpetuum mobile has finally been designed. Image

I also think that this site (and yourself) would do well to shun such contacts, lest you get associated with it.


Finally, as far as I am concerned:
I am a graduated Masters engineer from the University of Delft, the Netherlands, and I refuse to be associated with charlatans.
Regards
Cor
Greystoke
Hyper active member
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:10 am
Location: Port Elizabeth, South Africa

Re: Is free energy possible?

Postby Greystoke on Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:49 am

Greystoke wrote:Finally, as far as I am concerned:
I am a graduated Masters engineer from the University of Delft, the Netherlands, and I refuse to be associated with charlatans.
You can blame that to "the social ineptness of the engineers". :lmao:
Regards
Cor
Greystoke
Hyper active member
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:10 am
Location: Port Elizabeth, South Africa

Re: Is free energy possible?

Postby windgat on Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:00 am

That the world is flat would be a difficult one to swallow! I think I am probably a bit closed minded to that...

But that some quantum effect is discovered which allows a 'perpetual motion' machine to run... I can't feel the same confidence that such a thing is impossible.

The world is not flat - we have photographs of it after all. That is positive, concrete, scientific evidence. But there is not (and cannot be) the same level of evidence to support the statement 'Free energy is impossible' (where 'free energy' has the meaning as defined earlier).

Scientists have again and again been surprised, shocked and outraged by new discoveries... and then after some years they have become mainstream thought. This is because of a human tendency to become attached to our ideas, so much so that we can be irrational when presented with new evidence.
windgat
Founding member
 
Posts: 558
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:49 am
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

Re: Is free energy possible?

Postby Greystoke on Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:34 am

windgat wrote:// But that some quantum effect is discovered which allows a 'perpetual motion' machine to run... I can't feel the same confidence that such a thing is impossible.
At the present level of our knowledge, such a thing is impossible, and that a layman will discover quantum effects that will make it posssible is highly unlikely to the extent of near impossibility.
Sure, it's nice to philosophise about it, in the right company, but I am highly suspicious of people who claim (at length) that they can't spent $100 on this wonderful device, which he hasn't made before and therefore can't really know if it works.

windgat wrote:// Scientists have again and again been surprised, shocked and outraged by new discoveries... and then after some years they have become mainstream thought.
Indeed, but science is moving into realms that become more and more difficult to understand for the uneducated. Layman discoveries/inventions have become fewer and fewer.
Regards
Cor
Greystoke
Hyper active member
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:10 am
Location: Port Elizabeth, South Africa

Re: Is free energy possible?

Postby Greystoke on Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:34 pm

windgat wrote:// a human tendency to become attached to our ideas, so much so that we can be irrational when presented with new evidence.
You'd be surprised to see the amount of innovation that goes on among our young scientists. It's the very reason why technology develops at leaps and bounds. These days you don't go out there to do a Wright brothers flying machine invention. That was 100 years ago. Today, you study science, and THEN make a name for yourself.
Regards
Cor
Greystoke
Hyper active member
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:10 am
Location: Port Elizabeth, South Africa

Re: Is free energy possible?

Postby windgat on Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:12 pm

Greystoke wrote:At the present level of our knowledge, such a thing is impossible, and that a layman will discover quantum effects that will make it posssible is highly unlikely to the extent of near impossibility.

..., but science is moving into realms that become more and more difficult to understand for the uneducated. Layman discoveries/inventions have become fewer and fewer.


I remain unconvinced - all your comments could have been made before the formulation of the theory of relativity, and again before quantum mechanics. In both cases they would have been a source of later embarrassment!

I remember reading a saying: "If a greybeard scientist tells you something is possible, they are almost certainly right. If they tell you something is impossible, they are probably wrong."
windgat
Founding member
 
Posts: 558
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:49 am
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

Re: Is free energy possible?

Postby Greystoke on Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:27 am

It's not my objective to convince you. I'm just trying to explain my position.
I respect your tolerance for the unlikely, but I'm not built that way. I am an engineer. I trust the laws of science. I have every reason to do so. Engineers built bridges, tunnels, aircraft, moon landers and humans will go to Mars hopefully within my lifetime. We build what we think is possible, and we spend little or no time on what we think is impossible. We leave that to the scientists.

If you think you can build a prototype "perpetuum mobile" for $100, than that's fine by me, but don't expect me to take that serious. To me - the closest we may get to such a device is the ITER fusion reactor build in Cadarache near Marseilles in France for the sweet sum of ± 4bn Euros (and counting!).
Now, that's how far apart we are.
Regards
Cor
Greystoke
Hyper active member
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:10 am
Location: Port Elizabeth, South Africa

Re: Is free energy possible?

Postby windgat on Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:55 pm

You know, I don't think we are far apart at all. I also have a huge amount of skepticism, and know that a lack of formal training means people can easily make faulty measurements and conclusions. (A classic example is using a voltmeter that measures peak voltage, and assuming this is average voltage).

I think that a million, or maybe a billion such ideas will come along and, as expected, prove to be unfounded. But there is that minuscule chance that the idea I hear next will have some merit, and if I am lucky enough to hear such an idea in my lifetime, I want to be open to it, and not dismiss it just because it sounds too good to be true.
windgat
Founding member
 
Posts: 558
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:49 am
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

Re: Is free energy possible?

Postby Greystoke on Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:30 pm

OK, good.
I can't fault your philosophy, although I am not that way inclined. Yet I understand, and I just hope you understand my (more rigid) position.

Thank you for letting me have my say. :D
Regards
Cor
Greystoke
Hyper active member
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:10 am
Location: Port Elizabeth, South Africa

Re: Is free energy possible?

Postby bryanmason on Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:12 am

Hi,

I have installed residential solar panel systems in my home. Here the energy is harnessed through solar energy panels. Believe me I can see a major drop out in the electricity bills after this. I will recommend applying these resources.

-----------------

http://americanarraysolar.com
bryanmason
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:37 am

Re: Is free energy possible?

Postby bryanmason on Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:17 am

Solar energy is renewable and absolutely free for all us. Solar panels or solar modules are typically installed on the roof. These solar panels are made up of photovoltaic cells, which convert sunlight into direct current power.Check following link for know more about free energy :clap: :lol: :clap: ...............http://americanarraysolar.com/about.html
bryanmason
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:37 am


Return to Free Energy?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron